Comments on: Film and Culture Ramblings… http://new-wineskins.org/blog/2010/02/film-and-culture-ramblings/ The Institute for the Theology of Culture, an official program of Multnomah Biblical Seminary Fri, 10 Jun 2011 23:54:46 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Ashley Bell http://new-wineskins.org/blog/2010/02/film-and-culture-ramblings/#comment-11913 Ashley Bell Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:35:32 +0000 http://new-wineskins.org/?p=2055#comment-11913 Maybe Mark Driscoll thought he was going to see a Christian movie when he bought his ticket to see Avatar. I bet he didn't see it in 3D, if so he'd be singing a different song. Maybe Mark Driscoll thought he was going to see a Christian movie when he bought his ticket to see Avatar. I bet he didn’t see it in 3D, if so he’d be singing a different song.

]]> By: Kelsi Johns http://new-wineskins.org/blog/2010/02/film-and-culture-ramblings/#comment-11706 Kelsi Johns Sun, 14 Mar 2010 04:56:52 +0000 http://new-wineskins.org/?p=2055#comment-11706 My problem is, I get so worked up, I just become speechless and my heart starts racing. So. That said. I need a breather. But thank you for posting that. I now know what I think about Mark Driscoll's theology of "cultural engagement". Now I'm not saying it's positive or negative, I just now know where I stand. :) I will comment in full later after I've mulled things over a bit. My problem is, I get so worked up, I just become speechless and my heart starts racing. So. That said. I need a breather. But thank you for posting that. I now know what I think about Mark Driscoll’s theology of “cultural engagement”. Now I’m not saying it’s positive or negative, I just now know where I stand. :) I will comment in full later after I’ve mulled things over a bit.

]]> By: Luke http://new-wineskins.org/blog/2010/02/film-and-culture-ramblings/#comment-11656 Luke Fri, 12 Mar 2010 21:37:30 +0000 http://new-wineskins.org/?p=2055#comment-11656 I've revised the post so that it is hopefully more clear regarding the points Jeremy has made... I’ve revised the post so that it is hopefully more clear regarding the points Jeremy has made…

]]> By: Jeremy Nakasone http://new-wineskins.org/blog/2010/02/film-and-culture-ramblings/#comment-11615 Jeremy Nakasone Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:45:37 +0000 http://new-wineskins.org/?p=2055#comment-11615 Great post! I think it should be noted that Mark Driscoll is not against cultural engagement but in fact quite the opposite. One of the mission's of Mars Hill Church is to point to Christ in our culture. I think, somewhat in Driscoll's defense, he may have been leaning on the more to the side of this enlightening people towards a Pantheistic concept of God. Most Christians who see the film will go "It's a movie. It's obviously pagan. I'm not persuaded by it's religious message." But if a Christian walks away from Avatar thinking that we don't have a problem with sin, but just diconnection from God and nature, that's a gnostic view and is counter to what the bible teachers about humanity. In this regard Driscoll is correct. The problem with that assumption is that I don't think most Christians found the film "enlightening" for it's "spiritual content." It was enlightening because it really makes you think about human rights (or Na'vi rights, really), foreign affairs, war, and American greed in today's society. The visual effects are also mind blowing and I do not see Avatar as any more "pagan" than any other "spiritual" film Hollywood has produced. In this regard, Driscoll appears to contradict his own message of cultural engagement and his comment here needs some serious clarification. If it is indeed his view that Avatar is nothing but demonic garbage and should not be promoted by Christians because the message is not a "Christian" message, then he's advocating legalism. If he is however pointing out that the film is representative of pagan religion and we as Christians should not buy into that, than I think he's right. The problem with that is, I don't think Christians thought of it that way at all and I think Driscoll is making claims that aren't true but are simply just his own ramblings. Great post! I think it should be noted that Mark Driscoll is not against cultural engagement but in fact quite the opposite. One of the mission’s of Mars Hill Church is to point to Christ in our culture. I think, somewhat in Driscoll’s defense, he may have been leaning on the more to the side of this enlightening people towards a Pantheistic concept of God. Most Christians who see the film will go “It’s a movie. It’s obviously pagan. I’m not persuaded by it’s religious message.” But if a Christian walks away from Avatar thinking that we don’t have a problem with sin, but just diconnection from God and nature, that’s a gnostic view and is counter to what the bible teachers about humanity. In this regard Driscoll is correct.

The problem with that assumption is that I don’t think most Christians found the film “enlightening” for it’s “spiritual content.” It was enlightening because it really makes you think about human rights (or Na’vi rights, really), foreign affairs, war, and American greed in today’s society. The visual effects are also mind blowing and I do not see Avatar as any more “pagan” than any other “spiritual” film Hollywood has produced.

In this regard, Driscoll appears to contradict his own message of cultural engagement and his comment here needs some serious clarification. If it is indeed his view that Avatar is nothing but demonic garbage and should not be promoted by Christians because the message is not a “Christian” message, then he’s advocating legalism. If he is however pointing out that the film is representative of pagan religion and we as Christians should not buy into that, than I think he’s right. The problem with that is, I don’t think Christians thought of it that way at all and I think Driscoll is making claims that aren’t true but are simply just his own ramblings.

]]> By: Richard Fox http://new-wineskins.org/blog/2010/02/film-and-culture-ramblings/#comment-11313 Richard Fox Wed, 03 Mar 2010 03:57:18 +0000 http://new-wineskins.org/?p=2055#comment-11313 I look forward with great anticipation, but I hope Avatar is not in your top 10. I look forward with great anticipation, but I hope Avatar is not in your top 10.

]]> By: Ben Malick http://new-wineskins.org/blog/2010/02/film-and-culture-ramblings/#comment-11306 Ben Malick Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:57:25 +0000 http://new-wineskins.org/?p=2055#comment-11306 Great post! Great post!

]]> By: Luke http://new-wineskins.org/blog/2010/02/film-and-culture-ramblings/#comment-11149 Luke Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:50:47 +0000 http://new-wineskins.org/?p=2055#comment-11149 Thanks for filling in some of the gaps, Chris. Put it better than I did. Thanks for filling in some of the gaps, Chris. Put it better than I did.

]]> By: Christopher Laird http://new-wineskins.org/blog/2010/02/film-and-culture-ramblings/#comment-11144 Christopher Laird Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:58:17 +0000 http://new-wineskins.org/?p=2055#comment-11144 Well, if we follow that "world-view approach, then there goes Star Wars (Buddhist philosophy), Lord of the Rings (Pagan Mythology), The Wizard of Oz (blatant witchcraft), etc. I saw Avatar and I loved it! The fact that dude would even go so far as to defend the exploitive and ethno-centric nature of the "advanced culture" is really pretty wild (to be honest, a little scary). Now I have no interest in jumping into that whole "dominant, world-view, cage-match", so I'll just affirm your assessment. An "incarnational" approach to the gospel is concerned with truth and error, but the nature of engagement requires one to be discerning and not simply reactionary. Did I discern some of the animism and paganism inherent in Avatar, Star Wars, etc.? Of course I did. Did I also discern the critique on unbridled greed and ethno-centric arrogance? Absolutely. The over-arching message of Avatar was was entirely positive: stewardship of creation, sacrifice for others (even those who are different), humility (might does not make right). It would appear that our Seattle friend is so concerned with people being duped by the "pagan conspiracy" to lead us into mindless tree worshiping, that he failed to consider our legacy as those who engage the culture to advance the Gospel. I'm thinking of the apostle Paul who was fluent enough in the Greek culture of his day to quote the popular poets in his defense of the Gospel. Another case of a little bath-water leading to the tragic death of a healthy baby. Well, if we follow that “world-view approach, then there goes Star Wars (Buddhist philosophy), Lord of the Rings (Pagan Mythology), The Wizard of Oz (blatant witchcraft), etc. I saw Avatar and I loved it! The fact that dude would even go so far as to defend the exploitive and ethno-centric nature of the “advanced culture” is really pretty wild (to be honest, a little scary). Now I have no interest in jumping into that whole “dominant, world-view, cage-match”, so I’ll just affirm your assessment.

An “incarnational” approach to the gospel is concerned with truth and error, but the nature of engagement requires one to be discerning and not simply reactionary. Did I discern some of the animism and paganism inherent in Avatar, Star Wars, etc.? Of course I did. Did I also discern the critique on unbridled greed and ethno-centric arrogance? Absolutely.
The over-arching message of Avatar was was entirely positive: stewardship of creation, sacrifice for others (even those who are different), humility (might does not make right).

It would appear that our Seattle friend is so concerned with people being duped by the “pagan conspiracy” to lead us into mindless tree worshiping, that he failed to consider our legacy as those who engage the culture to advance the Gospel. I’m thinking of the apostle Paul who was fluent enough in the Greek culture of his day to quote the popular poets in his defense of the Gospel. Another case of a little bath-water leading to the tragic death of a healthy baby.

]]>