Comments on: Unanswered Prayers

By: justin

justin — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 01:41:59 +0000

just to chime in (nearly a year later)…we might find the parable of the mustard seed to be most exposing in this conversation…

“The god I have always known overcomes through his power and politics and apologetics not weakness.”

Though we note that in the stated parable, the field is the world; and the seed is the agent of transformation: and the seed dies into the field (like all seeds).

This would have surely taken the breath out of 1st century Jewish crowds’ lungs. Moreover, they would have the issue of the kingdom of heaven being likened to an “unclean weed” to deal with.

GREAT conversation here. I am loving this blog and all of the challenging, encouraging, and provoking posts to be found.

By: Luke

Luke — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:59:03 +0000

I think you’re right, a weak God is useless in worldly terms. We have to train ourselves to see along with Paul how Christ’s “power is made perfect in weakness” (2 Cor 12:9-10). A sight that led Paul to “delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties.” When Jesus tells us to turn the other cheek, I don’t think He’s oblivious to the fact He’s asking us to make ourselves vulnerable to be slapped again. That should make us squeamish, but that is where Christ’s power is found. In a world torn to bits by power plays and violence, turning the other cheek becomes a radical form of protest against sin in the world. And we can have confidence knowing that we are not venturing into uncharted waters, but that Christ has gone before us.

By: Christopher Laird

Christopher Laird — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:45:20 +0000

You’re going into some dangerous waters talking like this. Sail on my friend. I only hope I have the courage to sail with you. “Only a suffering God can help.” Wow, what do we do with that? Something tells me it’s true (the cross, Scripture, Luther, Bonhoeffer, Metzger and now you) but honestly I’m still a little squeemish. The god I have always known overcomes through his power and politics and apologetics not weakness. What good is a weak God? How can a weak God be of any real use to us? This is a massive paradigm shift. If it’s true, I suspect it will take some time for us to grasp this experientially. Thanks for mixing it up.

By: Luke

Luke — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 06:42:34 +0000

I’m not an expert on Bonhoeffer in any sense, but given it was a letter and not a systematic work, not to mention the stress he was under awaiting execution, I imagine he was being somewhat hyperbolic. Deists would see no place for God in the world, whereas Bonhoeffer would see God as present, but primarily as a suffering presence. God gains “space” in the world and accomplishes the work of redemption not through acts of power and coercion, but through Christ and so in humility, weakness, and suffering (Phil 2:6-11). I imagine Bonhoeffer would have in mind Luther’s (if not John’s or Paul’s) theology of the cross: the cross truly reflects who God is, God’s glory is revealed on the cross.

I personally think God often (if not primarily, though I hesitate with that phrasing) works through the Spirit’s working in people, at this stage in redemptive history (“how can they hear without someone preaching to them?”). I would definitely not say exclusively, but I think its been God’s intention since creation to work through people to bring creation to its designed end, and this intention has been included in Gods redemption of a fallen creation. Prayer becomes a key part of that redemption, giving us a place to participate in God’s work and allows the Spirit to work in us. I see a value in prayer in this sense whether or not prayers are immediately answered.

Most importantly, when Christ comes again, all will be made right, and all prayers will find their answer.

By: Weston Ruter

Weston Ruter — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 04:26:40 +0000

Thanks for blogging this. I’ve given a lot of thought to the issue of theodicy and God’s presence in the midst of pain, especially regarding whether or not He is the one who sovereignly dictates everything that happens, including suffering. I strongly believe that it is against his loving and just nature to be the source of suffering of the innocent; I never heard before about what Dietrich Bonhoeffer said as you quoted, and I find it very interesting.

What would you say the distinction is, however, between Bonhoeffer’s hands-off view and the perspective of deism? Was Bonhoeffer a deist in present tense, but otherwise in future? Does he hold that God just doesn’t show up personally, bur rather that he is spiritually present in the hearts of believers and works through them? I suppose there is ample evidence against this being exclusively true.